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What we should do next 2.0 ?

(A)(1) Investigate with ground based systems miscibility of noble ullage gases with cryogenic LH2, LO2 and LCH4

(A)(2) investigate mixing of noble gas ullage with Cryogenic propellants over hours, days and  weeks

(B)(1) investigate in space liquefaction/fractionation machinery in conjunction with a zero boil off unit.

(B)(2) this machinery would be used to process gasses H2 and O2 out of noble ullage/ion propellant in hybrid chemical ion powered systems; investigate with ground based experiments a Liquid air fractionation unit

(B)(3) removal of noble elements out of LH2 and LO2 in the case of a chemical refueling of a hybrid powered stage

(C)(1) investigate with ground based experiments with removing Noble gasses from Nitrogen oxygen gases in the case of habitat’s being re-purposed as ion propellant tank.This is also done with an in space liquid air liquefaction/fraternization system. 


(D)(1) We need to use a ground based experiment to study of Noble gas ullage/Ion propellants with hypergolic propellants; If these behave better on longer term missions and behave better on miscible issues then Hyperbolic chemical/ion powered hybrid stages then we could in future do trades with cryogenic ion powered hybrids

(E)(1) The ground based Air liquefaction/fractionation unit leads the way to IRSU of rocks.Imagine the system at work on a landed hybrid propellent Xues/Centuat lander coupled to a Oxygen production system.

(F)(1) Air Liquefaction/Fractionation unit allows for the GH2/GO2/GCH4 in the propellent tanks to be separated from one another and fed to both The IVF and Ion propulsion systems since we envision that both systems are present and that both use the same propellent and oxidizer  tanks.

EDIT 16 March 2016

(G) (1) Does Noble element ice sink or float in cryogenic oxidisers or propellant? I think if large Noble element ice forms it sinks



Can A Europan lander Geophone detect bioacustics produced by life through 30 kilometers of ice?

Can A Europan lander Geophone detect bioacoustics produced by life through 30 kilometers of ice?

far fetched yes? 🙂 biological acoustics through 30 kilometers of European ice is a lot to hope for but how could it be done? There may be water in places closer to the surface.

The Proposed Europa lander suggests the use of a geophone to listen for the geological evidence of an ocean

Whales are well known to produce sound, Does Europa even come close to having the energetics to evolve Metazoans?

Shrimp are Acoustically among the loudest on Earth

Small metazoans are more likely but this requires O2 right?

Panning Et al are hoping to listen to geological sounds at Europa

looking for Ocean sounds at Europa



Taxation of Launch vehicles that Utilize Biofuels; a new paradigm

We propose the study of existing laws and regulations on the federal and state levels and were needed the lobbying of new regulations and laws to ensure that space launch vehicles that utilize biofuels receive tax subsidies and  that the production of rocket propellants from renewable sources receive tax incentives

WE propose that CO2 from the atmosphere converted into methane be treated as a Biofuel for tax purposes and that a launch vehicle is a motor vehicle


Hybrid ULA ACES/SEP stage for a Pluto Orbiter & possible ICE-E-P Next stage

Hybrid ULA ACES/SEP stage for a Pluto Orbiter

Hypothetical conops; (1)Utilizing the ULA proposed distributed launch we have a fully fueled ACES on orbit(2)ACES has a cryogenic tank of 3 metric tons of Xenon cooled by the LH2/LO2 propellants for a SEP system.The ACES/SEP hybrid carries an Imaging system for Pluto and is Docked to the Pluto orbiter with its RTG power systems.After orbit insertion, the stack undocks and the ACES stage continues on as long as propellants last with its science payload and the RTG orbiter continues on its Pluto mission.


ULA ACES ICE internal combustion engine as power source for a ACES/SEP hybrid stage  for outer planet missions

This idea might be the most innovative we might have come up with and involves its own set of complex trades.

We think the LH2/LO2 boil-off could power the ICE engine for electrical power that powers the SEP engine and this might reduce the mass of the SEP solar array or eliminate it.The spacecraft RTG still supplements this power source through the docking mechanism and use of boil-off might ironically reduce mass to orbit insertion

LH2/LO2 ACES with a 2 metric ton LXE2 tank

With ICE GH2/GO2 engine to power SEP engines

spacecraft, RTG power supplements SEP powered engines by hibernating power

SEP stage might be a ICE-P stage without solar arrays, this might be possible with distributed launch with a full propellant load on the hybrid ACES/ICE-P stage at planetary transfer from LEO or cislunar.The trades here like above would be enough Xenon & LH2/LO2 to power the NEXT engines and to not have to much mass to orbit insertion.

The goal is to place in ice giant orbit insertion both the ICE-P and spacecraft into science orbits with 150 Kg each and descope from that point.

The secondary goal is to do this at both Uranus and Neptune and to serially produce the ICE-P and ACE/SEP hybrid stage for Mars MRO follow on as well as other missions and it’s this that has a commercial procurement possibility.It’s important for the next decadal study to identify other goals that could be met by serially produced by ACES ICE-P as spacecraft main bus & payload.

Gear ratios for ACES ICE-E-P Cryogenic chemical & Noble 

Model the required GH2/GO2 to power ion engines with the ICE engine for the electrical source.Model this without the mass of solar arrays at outer planets.Model with a reduced mass solar array.Model a cislunar ACES/SEP tug with solar arrays that is a stage for the ACES ICE-E-P that stages past Saturn and the stage returns to cislunar space.








Martian equatorial underground ice sheets as a Nuclear fission powered warmed reservoir & Pumped storage unit

Martian equatorial underground ice sheets as a Nuclear fission powered warmed reservoir & Pumped storage unit

Hypothesis; Mars possesses vast subterranean frozen ice sheets that could be melted with coolant from fission power plants & funneled through a Penstock and Dam both built underground and under the ice and dust cap.These ice sheets are near the equator and would have easier access to and from orbit.

The fission reactor could both utilize the water as coolant and pump the water uphill during the night to flow back down the Penstock during the day for hydroelectricity.Due to the ice sheet there possibly might not be a dam but a Penstock shaft instead leading downhill to a generator.

Water pressure from under the ice sheet at bedrock should be high as it feeds to the Penstock and downhill hydroelectric generator

Penstock base and settlements; a boring project

The existence of a settlement here is the Boring machine that starts uphill targeted at the base of the bedrock and subterranean ice sheet.A small bore is dug first as a science project to look for life and to ascertain the geology of the area for the larger hydroelectric bore.

An Antartica test bed demonstration glacial hydro-electric scheme for science base utilization

This could be a national science foundation(NSF)  NASA partnership with NOAA and a private partnership investment that sells power back to the government supported Antarctic research station.This could be another boring project 🙂

The Equatorial Ice Sheet  Boring leveraged ESOP & Power company

The leveraged ESOP borrows on the capital markets and funds the cost of passengers & cargo flights to Mars to build the Mars ice sheet hydroelectric company station. A major byproduct is water and propellants.Propellents to Mars Fuel depots.Water to other Mars settlements.NASA could be the anchor tenant, purchaser of science from the smaller test bore to test for life under the ice sheet & subsequent purchaser of water & propellant


A recent article on Mars daily describes locations of buried ice in the mid-latitudes of mars

Mars water-ice locations



A legislative cartel regime to regulate flows of Asteroid/Lunar derived materials to economic markets

A legislative cartel regime to regulate flows of Asteroid/Lunar derived materials to economic markets

De Beers caches Diamonds to keep them from release to the market place so legislative rules and a regulated cartel could allow for holding back rare earth and metals from market prices to stabilize prices.We would also want to explore lowering prices over time after the space based infrastructure has been amortized to allow for more users to be made available for rare metals at lower prices.

Rappolee Flowers “The Farm” Honey production from the Fort Miley & Park Presidio floristic province

Rappolee Flowers “The Farm” Honey production from the Fort Miley & Park Presidio floristic province

Rappolee Flowers is owned by terrestrial & Cislunar Exploration Technologies a Post 9/11 Veteran owned concern.

We would seek permission to locate on the VA hospital and Park Presidio grounds honey bee colonies to produce local honey from the  Park Presidio & Fort Miley floristic province.This product could be sold at Farmer’s markets or local bay area stores.the product could be sold to Park Presidio food purveyors and The Fort Miley VA hospital Canteen service.

I have some physical disabilities that might prove a challenge in beekeeping so one answer might be to sell NUCS or new beehives produced from existing hives.These I could sell to other veterans with an agreement that they whole sell honey to “Rappolee Flowers” for retail sells to farmers markets.




Supersychronus orbit Fuel depot to deploy “Rappolee flowers” & enables  “Supersychronus distributed launch”

Supersychronus orbit Fuel depot to deploy “Rappolee flowers” & enables  “Supersychronus distributed launch”

Based on this post, Rappolee Flowers

Supersychronus orbit perigee might need to be raised higher in some trades? Rappolee Flowers” are fairings and payload adapter brought to an economically useful orbit to produce power from a fairing deployed solar array and sunshade for docked Fuel depots.Perhaps this works best with an all-electric payload(weight)and the Rappolee Flower is the secondary payload.

Supersychronus orbit allows for a powersat/fuel depot combination to stay out of the geosynchronous satellite belt.This system makes dual use of payload fairings and payload adapter but with a payload weight penalty?

This system is meant to mimic our post in regards to our adaptation of a student university study of a Falcon heavy lifting its core stage to orbit for distributed launch of propellant to refill the core stage to enable a transit to Mars (citation here) I/we had modified this to include refueling a Rappolee Flower Fuel depot.My paper/lab notes from 2009/10 describe a Falcon stage in super synchronous orbit as the “distributed” launch target vehicle.So ULA might have coined the term but they did not invent the idea.

Supersynchronus orbit might be a base for any satellite servicing businesses & is a base to journey onwards to other cislunar locations.We assume that satellite serving for the GEO customers are primary with Lunar customers secondary.However, as the economy expands the supersychronus depot becomes the customer of lunar and asteroid ISRU propellant and consumables.

HESFP,  “Highly evolved secondary fairing payload”


Cryogenic air Liquefaction/Fractionation plant derived CO2 & CH4 for launch vehicle propellant

Cryogenic air Liquefaction/Fractionation plant derived CO2 & CH4 for launch vehicle propellant

(A) Cryogenic air liquefaction/fractionation distillation plants are used to manufacture cryogenic fluids for aerospace, electronic and medical applications.CO2 and Methane are also produced in the process.(A)(1) CO2 and methane are atmospheric warming gasses and utilizing them as feedstock for launch vehicle propellants would make for good environmental policy and public relations.

Utilizing solar voltaic power to convert the CO2 to Methane using the reverse gas shift method and combining this with Methane from both distilled Atmospheric Methane and BioMethane sources should even out fluctuations in production from all sources to ensure timely deliveries for launch cadence.

Issues that make for the need for atmospheric CO2 production to methane,(B)(1) Landfill BioMethane is already utilized as power production for electrical power as is Biomethane from sewage treatment plants, so these existing sources are very limited as their use as transportation fuels. There are new sources of BioMethane as transportation fuels coming online in the future.California and Florida are states that are well positioned to produce BioMethane from agricultural crops if a launch vehicle customer was found.Florida has USDA subsidized Sugar cane production that could be converted to methane production although it should be noted that Florida sugar cane is giving way to Everglades restoration.

Our thoughts here at Terrestrial & Cislunar Exploration technologies is that ULA,  Blue Origin, and SpaceX would allow our firm to bring in by train CO2 sourced from atmospheric liquefaction plants to a onsite solar-powered reverse gas shift plant to manufacture methane for propellants. In the case of Blue Origin, BioEthane or BioPropane could approximate a “BioLNG” mix.




Autogenously Cycling Methane power generator & ECLESS feedback system

Formula; Large SpaceX spaceship slightly used.

ICE engine burns some CH4 produce power, crew if any also produce CO2 and reverse gas shift back to Methane.This proposal is a fuel depot out in the outer planets and beyond waiting for future human or robotic missions.The spacecraft pressurized spaces are a sink to the ICE exhaust.

Is this a perpetual motion machine? yes, so I propose that a Nuclear Electric (RTG)source keeps the margin going on the methane CO2 back to Methane cycle.In deep space however out among the ice giants and beyond its cold enough to rid our selfs of perpetual motion machine charges and make the claim the RTG NE source is a Methane propellant heat source along with the ICE engine for additional heat and power and our Methane propellant depot is a Battery.

If this depot is using a retired spaceship then if no crew we want some plant and mice experiments running in the pressurized volume as a far outer solar system ECLESS test.These retired spaceships are also more then depots.they have earth derived methane but they are docked at an ice giant satellite or scattered object with machines to attempt ISRU.The Earth Methane is our insurance in case of IRSU challenges.

So we turn Elon Musks outer planet spaceships into a serious  prepositioned depots for future explorers  or to refuel interplanetary probes

These things deserve new names

“Distributed planetary probe tugs and fuel depot”


In the Giant planets and ice giants and satellites, ACES and ARRM derived SEP could perform this commercial type mission on a much smaller scale from the ITS spaceship.






ACES duel use as wet lab and water source for an attached ISS class module enshrouded with a water inflated Bigalow inflatable

ACES duel use as wet lab and water source for an attached ISS class module enshrouded with a water inflated Bigalow inflatable

Fueled ACES delivers itself and an ISS derived Gateway module to Cislunar space.ISS derived module is attacked/docked to ACES with a hatch.ISS module is enshrouded in a Bigalow inflatable that inflates and receives deliver water from ACES ICE engine to fill the spaces between the Bigelow and the ISS derived Module to provide radiation shelter.

This idea is the mirror idea to the Skylab-II post that sports an ISS module enshrouded with a Bigelow with water EUS ISS water inflated gateway

The  ISS water inflated gateway is inspired by the NASA Huntsville advanced projects Skylab-II paper.It imagines an ISS module inside an SLS propellant tank derived space station with water fill in the Skylab to provide radiation protection to the ISS derived module.We have replaced the Skylab with ACES or EUS and Bigalow with the lighter weight inflatable to hold water

The ISS module would need scuba diving ports to access the spaces around the ISS module and this allows for ideas from a prior post that involves that kelp human migration routes through the sky 

Kelp highway to the stars

Seawater inoculated with barnacles and other encrusting organisms to experiment with encrusting and attachments to solid surfaces in Zero Gee.these would encrust on the inner surface of the Bigalow inflatable and the ISS derived module.many years ago I spoke to a Bigalow ECLESS subcontractor about how to keep the interior well lite and he said something about light pipes, I learned something that day.I have posted before years ago about such Life filled water spaces being a sink and reservoir for many ECLESS systems.Organisms from the sea might make that transition to microgravity the best of many candidates and many are edible.Canada has been studying an old Asian concept of polyculture aquaculture that they have renamed IMTA or Integrated Multitrophic Aquaculture that features fish produced nitrates that are absorbed by bivalves and seaweed.Such a system might take a while to work in microgravity so we would need the ECLESS system to regulate the experiment.We do this on earth now with public aquariums.This gives rise to the idea a public aquarium could be partners in this flight experiment.An ISS derived module surrounded by a seawater inflated structure with encrusting organisms would look like a shipwreck or artificial reef and this would be a tremendous achievement.

ACES ICE engine exhaust (H2O) would feed into the salt water radiation shield, Human ECLESS products such as methane can flow through the ICE engine.Fresh water can be extracted back out of this system to produce LH2 LO2 and GO2.Whoever brought the water up owns all or some of the rights to the water

Future propellant depots could serve has vast kelp seawater reservoirs that serve as both an Aquaculture and propellant/consumables staging area.





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