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What we should do next 2.0 ?

(A)(1) Investigate with ground based systems miscibility of noble ullage gases with cryogenic LH2, LO2 and LCH4

(A)(2) investigate mixing of noble gas ullage with Cryogenic propellants over hours, days and  weeks

(B)(1) investigate in space liquefaction/fractionation machinery in conjunction with a zero boil off unit.

(B)(2) this machinery would be used to process gasses H2 and O2 out of noble ullage/ion propellant in hybrid chemical ion powered systems; investigate with ground based experiments a Liquid air fractionation unit

(B)(3) removal of noble elements out of LH2 and LO2 in the case of a chemical refueling of a hybrid powered stage

(C)(1) investigate with ground based experiments with removing Noble gasses from Nitrogen oxygen gases in the case of habitat’s being re-purposed as ion propellant tank.This is also done with an in space liquid air liquefaction/fraternization system. 


(D)(1) We need to use a ground based experiment to study of Noble gas ullage/Ion propellants with hypergolic propellants; If these behave better on longer term missions and behave better on miscible issues then Hyperbolic chemical/ion powered hybrid stages then we could in future do trades with cryogenic ion powered hybrids

(E)(1) The ground based Air liquefaction/fractionation unit leads the way to IRSU of rocks.Imagine the system at work on a landed hybrid propellent Xues/Centuat lander coupled to a Oxygen production system.

(F)(1) Air Liquefaction/Fractionation unit allows for the GH2/GO2/GCH4 in the propellent tanks to be separated from one another and fed to both The IVF and Ion propulsion systems since we envision that both systems are present and that both use the same propellent and oxidizer  tanks.

EDIT 16 March 2016

(G) (1) Does Noble element ice sink or float in cryogenic oxidisers or propellant? I think if large Noble element ice forms it sinks


Martian equatorial underground ice sheets as a Nuclear fission powered warmed reservoir & Pumped storage unit

Martian equatorial underground ice sheets as a Nuclear fission powered warmed reservoir & Pumped storage unit

Hypothesis; Mars possesses vast subterranean frozen ice sheets that could be melted with coolant from fission power plants & funneled through a Penstock and Dam both built underground and under the ice and dust cap.These ice sheets are near the equator and would have easier access to and from orbit.

The fission reactor could both utilize the water as coolant and pump the water uphill during the night to flow back down the Penstock during the day for hydroelectricity.Due to the ice sheet there possibly might not be a dam but a Penstock shaft instead leading downhill to a generator.

Water pressure from under the ice sheet at bedrock should be high as it feeds to the Penstock and downhill hydroelectric generator

Penstock base and settlements; a boring project

The existence of a settlement here is the Boring machine that starts uphill targeted at the base of the bedrock and subterranean ice sheet.A small bore is dug first as a science project to look for life and to ascertain the geology of the area for the larger hydroelectric bore.

An Antartica test bed demonstration glacial hydro electric scheme for science base utilization

This could be a national science foundation(NSF)  NASA partnership with NOAA and a private partnership investment that sells power back to the government supported Antarctic research station.This could be another boring project 🙂

The Equatorial Ice Sheet  Boring leveraged ESOP & Power company

The leveraged ESOP borrows on the capital markets and funds the cost of passengers & cargo flights to Mars to build the Mars ice sheet hydro electric company station. A major byproduct is water and propellants.Propellents to Mars Fuel depots.Water to other Mars settlements.NASA could be the anchor tenant, purchaser of science from the smaller test bore to test for life under the ice sheet & subsequent purchaser of water & propellant



A legislative cartel regime to regulate flows of Asteroid/Lunar derived materials to economic markets

A legislative cartel regime to regulate flows of Asteroid/Lunar derived materials to economic markets

De Beers caches Diamonds to keep them from release to the market place so legislative rules and a regulated cartel could allow for holding back rare earth and metals from market prices to stabilize prices.We would also want to explore lowering prices over time after the space based infrastructure has been amortized to allow for more users to be made available for rare metals at lower prices.

Rappolee Flowers “The Farm” Honey production from the Fort Miley & Park Presidio floristic province

Rappolee Flowers “The Farm” Honey production from the Fort Miley & Park Presidio floristic province

Rappolee Flowers is owned by terrestrial & Cislunar Exploration Technologies a Post 9/11 Veteran owned concern.

We would seek permission to locate on the VA hospital and Park Presidio grounds honey bee colonies to produce local honey from the  Park Presidio & Fort Miley floristic province.This product could be sold at Farmer’s markets or local bay area stores.the product could be sold to Park Presidio food purveyors and The Fort Miley VA hospital Canteen service.

I have some physical disabilities that might prove a challenge in beekeeping so one answer might be to sell NUCS or new beehives produced from existing hives.These I could sell to other veterans with an agreement that they whole sell honey to “Rappolee Flowers” for retail sells to farmers markets.




Supersychronus orbit Fuel depot to deploy “Rappolee flowers” & enables  “Supersychronus distributed launch”

Supersychronus orbit Fuel depot to deploy “Rappolee flowers” & enables  “Supersychronus distributed launch”

Based on this post, Rappolee Flowers

Supersychronus orbit perigee might need to be raised higher in some trades? Rappolee Flowers” are fairings and payload adapter brought to an economically useful orbit to produce power from a fairing deployed solar array and sunshade for docked Fuel depots.Perhaps this works best with an all-electric payload(weight)and the Rappolee Flower is the secondary payload.

Supersychronus orbit allows for a powersat/fuel depot combination to stay out of the geosynchronous satellite belt.This system makes dual use of payload fairings and payload adapter but with a payload weight penalty?

This system is meant to mimic our post in regards to our adaptation of a student university study of a Falcon heavy lifting its core stage to orbit for distributed launch of propellant to refill the core stage to enable a transit to Mars (citation here) I/we had modified this to include refueling a Rappolee Flower Fuel depot.My paper/lab notes from 2009/10 describe a Falcon stage in super synchronous orbit as the “distributed” launch target vehicle.So ULA might have coined the term but they did not invent the idea.

Supersynchronus orbit might be a base for any satellite servicing businesses & is a base to journey onwards to other cislunar locations.We assume that satellite serving for the GEO customers are primary with Lunar customers secondary.However, as the economy expands the supersychronus depot becomes the customer of lunar and asteroid ISRU propellant and consumables.

HESFP,  “Highly evolved secondary fairing payload”


Cryogenic air Liquefaction/Fractionation plant derived CO2 & CH4 for launch vehicle propellant

Cryogenic air Liquefaction/Fractionation plant derived CO2 & CH4 for launch vehicle propellant

(A) Cryogenic air liquefaction/fractionation distillation plants are used to manufacture cryogenic fluids for aerospace, electronic and medical applications.CO2 and Methane are also produced in the process.(A)(1) CO2 and methane are atmospheric warming gasses and utilizing them as feedstock for launch vehicle propellants would make for good environmental policy and public relations.

Utilizing solar voltaic power to convert the CO2 to Methane using the reverse gas shift method and combining this with Methane from both distilled Atmospheric Methane and BioMethane sources should even out fluctuations in production from all sources to ensure timely deliveries for launch cadence.

Issues that make for the need for atmospheric CO2 production to methane,(B)(1) Landfill BioMethane is already utilized as power production for electrical power as is Biomethane from sewage treatment plants, so these existing sources are very limited as their use as transportation fuels. There are new sources of BioMethane as transportation fuels coming online in the future.California and Florida are states that are well positioned to produce BioMethane from agricultural crops if a launch vehicle customer was found.Florida has USDA subsidized Sugar cane production that could be converted to methane production although it should be noted that Florida sugar cane is giving way to Everglades restoration.

Our thoughts here at Terrestrial & Cislunar Exploration technologies is that ULA,  Blue Origin, and SpaceX would allow our firm to bring in by train CO2 sourced from atmospheric liquefaction plants to a onsite solar-powered reverse gas shift plant to manufacture methane for propellants. In the case of Blue Origin, BioEthane or BioPropane could approximate a “BioLNG” mix.




Autogenously Cycling Methane power generator & ECLESS feedback system

Formula; Large SpaceX spaceship slightly used.

ICE engine burns some CH4 produce power, crew if any also produce CO2 and reverse gas shift back to Methane.This proposal is a fuel depot out in the outer planets and beyond waiting for future human or robotic missions.The spacecraft pressurized spaces are a sink to the ICE exhaust.

Is this a perpetual motion machine? yes, so I propose that a Nuclear Electric (RTG)source keeps the margin going on the methane CO2 back to Methane cycle.In deep space however out among the ice giants and beyond its cold enough to rid our selfs of perpetual motion machine charges and make the claim the RTG NE source is a Methane propellant heat source along with the ICE engine for additional heat and power and our Methane propellant depot is a Battery.

If this depot is using a retired spaceship then if no crew we want some plant and mice experiments running in the pressurized volume as a far outer solar system ECLESS test.These retired spaceships are also more then depots.they have earth derived methane but they are docked at an ice giant satellite or scattered object with machines to attempt ISRU.The Earth Methane is our insurance in case of IRSU challenges.

So we turn Elon Musks outer planet spaceships into a serious  prepositioned depots for future explorers  or to refuel interplanetary probes

These things deserve new names

“Distributed planetary probe tugs and fuel depot”


In the Giant planets and ice giants and satellites, ACES and ARRM derived SEP could perform this commercial type mission on a much smaller scale from the ITS spaceship.






ACES duel use as wet lab and water source for an attached ISS class module enshrouded with a water inflated Bigalow inflatable

ACES duel use as wet lab and water source for an attached ISS class module enshrouded with a water inflated Bigalow inflatable

Fueled ACES delivers itself and an ISS derived Gateway module to Cislunar space.ISS derived module is attacked/docked to ACES with a hatch.ISS module is enshrouded in a Bigalow inflatable that inflates and receives deliver water from ACES ICE engine to fill the spaces between the Bigelow and the ISS derived Module to provide radiation shelter.

This idea is the mirror idea to the Skylab-II post that sports an ISS module enshrouded with a Bigelow with water EUS ISS water inflated gateway

The  ISS water inflated gateway is inspired by the NASA Huntsville advanced projects Skylab-II paper.It imagines an ISS module inside an SLS propellant tank derived space station with water fill in the Skylab to provide radiation protection to the ISS derived module.We have replaced the Skylab with ACES or EUS and Bigalow with the lighter weight inflatable to hold water

The ISS module would need scuba diving ports to access the spaces around the ISS module and this allows for ideas from a prior post that involves that kelp human migration routes through the sky 

Kelp highway to the stars

Seawater inoculated with barnacles and other encrusting organisms to experiment with encrusting and attachments to solid surfaces in Zero Gee.these would encrust on the inner surface of the Bigalow inflatable and the ISS derived module.many years ago I spoke to a Bigalow ECLESS subcontractor about how to keep the interior well lite and he said something about light pipes, I learned something that day.I have posted before years ago about such Life filled water spaces being a sink and reservoir for many ECLESS systems.Organisms from the sea might make that transition to microgravity the best of many candidates and many are edible.Canada has been studying an old Asian concept of polyculture aquaculture that they have renamed IMTA or Integrated Multitrophic Aquaculture that features fish produced nitrates that are absorbed by bivalves and seaweed.Such a system might take a while to work in microgravity so we would need the ECLESS system to regulate the experiment.We do this on earth now with public aquariums.This gives rise to the idea a public aquarium could be partners in this flight experiment.An ISS derived module surrounded by a seawater inflated structure with encrusting organisms would look like a shipwreck or artificial reef and this would be a tremendous achievement.

ACES ICE engine exhaust (H2O) would feed into the salt water radiation shield, Human ECLESS products such as methane can flow through the ICE engine.Fresh water can be extracted back out of this system to produce LH2 LO2 and GO2.Whoever brought the water up owns all or some of the rights to the water

Future propellant depots could serve has vast kelp seawater reservoirs that serve as both an Aquaculture and propellant/consumables staging area.





ACES as a Cislunar wet lab to augment a gateway space station

ACES as a Cislunar wet lab to augment a gateway space station

This post is a mirror image of the SLS EUS stage as gateway wet lab to augment a cislunar Gateway SLS EUS Gateway Wet Lab

We need to know Volumes of the ACES LH2 tanks but let’s guess the fact it’s three times that of the Centaur(150 M3) or 450 M3

Skylab-II 3.0; An SLS three Barrow LH2 tank derived space station with an attached Tranqulity derived module with a Bigalow/water shroud for radiation sheltor

(A)(1) Skylab-II with 3 barrows and two domes instead of just 2 SLS propellant tank barrows should fit in an SLS 10 meter payload fairing SLS payload planners guide 

Space Launch System Core Stage


The planner’s guide states that the 10 m diameter PLF concept has 15.32 Meters cylindrical while the proposed Skylab-II is 11.5 meters high.So it appears a 3 barrow Skylab-II would fit in this space.Please note that on page 58 of the SLS payload planners guide there is another 11.12 meters tapered payload fairing geometry.Is it possible to fit an ISS module on top of the SLS propellant tanks? The tapered geometry makes it possible to make a radiation shelter as proposed in the Skylab-II paper; “a possible solution is to place an ISS US Lab size module within the Skylab II leaving approximately 2 meters between shells (Figure 6). If the void were filled with water the mass of water alone would be 389 mt. For water mass only, this would take 4-5 launches using the 95 mt SLS” Skylab-II proposal 

“Skylab II; Making a Deep Space Habitat from a Space Launch System Propellant Tank”  Griffen & Smitherman Et al


This image is of Centaur lofting Cygnus to the ISS

We propose that the 3 Barrows Skylab-II with an attached ISS module on the forward dome of the LH2 could be enshrouded within a Bigalow that would inflate on orbit.Distributed launch of water would follow.If we are using a 8 meter long ISS module then the Bigalow inflatable would encapsulate that prior to inflation and fit in the remaining tapered 11.12 meters of the SLS 10  meter circumference payload fairing.****


The Diameter of the ISS Tranquility module is 4.48 meters and an inflated Bigalow B330 is 6.7 meters so this leaves 2.22 meters for salt water and Kelp as a radiation barrier.A Bigalow enshrouded  ISS module atop the Skylab-II should be less volume than the proposed 389 metric tons of the ISS module inside a Skylab-II proposal

In our Rappolee flowers proposal, we suggested payload fairings with attached mesh as a deployed solar array; SLS 10 meter fairing that’s a total of 27.43 meters on a side for deployed fairings still attached to the spacecraft so 27.43 x 2 = 54.86 meters diameter of our Rappolee flower

r=27.43 m =2363.749706365 m2     172.34777297594 m c The ISS USOC solar arrays are 1500 M 2 since the Payload fairings are concave in shape then 2363 M 2 is under the true surface area.


(1) Skylab-II 47,432 Kg? Full capability C 2 Figure 15 20140012883

(2) ISS Tranquility module 19,000 Kg

(3) B330 20,000 Kg

(4) SLS 10 meter fairing brought to LEO Kg?

(4) solar voltaic cells lining 10-meter fairing and deployable mesh Rappolee (flower) Kg?

SLS has payload ranges  70  90 130 metric tons to LEO

SLS first stage O2 tank has another 9.5 meter barrow segment and this sounds like our 3 barrow proposal? so 11.5 meters plus 9.5 meters? “The current SLS upper stage H2 tank weighs 4200 kg (9240 lbm). This is an exceptionally lightweight pressure vessel; equivalent to two sport utility vehicles. The simplest approach is to use a tank off the production line then outfit it as a DSH. Figure 12 shows other options include using the first stage oxygen tank or the end domes of the first stage hydrogen tank welded to a shortened barrel section. Either approach offer the same diameter with the oxygen tank providing a 9.5 m (373 in.) barrel section and thus greater volume than the upper stage hydrogen tank”

pressure vessel; equivalent to two sport utility vehicles. The simplest approach is to use a tank off the production line then outfit it as a DSH. Figure 12 shows other options include using the first stage oxygen tank or the end domes of the first stage hydrogen tank welded to a shortened barrel section. Either approach offer the same diameter with the oxygen tank providing a 9.5 m (373 in.) barrel section and thus greater volume than the upper stage hydrogen tank”



According to this Youtube, each SLS LH2 Barrow is 6.7056 Meters X 5 barrows plus two domes 135 feet total or 41.148 meters.A 41 meter space station payload wil not fit in the NASA space vehicle assembly building.

26.44 meters is the 10 meter PLF concept so subtracting 2 LH2 Barrows makes for a 3 segment plus 2 domes Skylab-II just a little too big for the 10 meter PLF


**** A discovery, a paper from the NASA NTRS archive that speaks of a “full capability Skylab-II or C-2 it is 16.5 meters tall and would need the 10 meter PLF? Habitat Concepts for Deep Space Exploration

This is close I think to the Skylab-II MAX that I blogged about earlier last year.Except Skylab MAX is an entire SLS LH2 tank inserted into LEO and this would be a 40 meter tall payload on top of the SLS!

SLS EUS derived Gateway Cislunar space station

SLS EUS propellant tanks could augment any cislunar gateway with a wet lab, An EUS LH2 tank would increase the pressurized volume of a Skylab-II C 2 full capability habitat by 45% (see figure 15)   20140012883

LH2 Tank ~9,400 ft3 capacity 8.4 m dia, ~7.5 m length

LO2 Tank ~3,400 ft3 capacity 5.5 m dia, ~6.0 m length

LH2 tank  315.8703 m3 pressurized  volume added to the Skylab-II  500 m3 pressurized volume a 45 % increase


CONOPS; (A) EUS delivers skylab-II to cislunar space(B) ACES derived ICE and IVF consume remaining propellants and water is recovered(C) EUS has a hatch between the EUS and skylab-II that is designed to allow egress.(D) EUS continues to supply additional solar power(E) EUS LH2 tank would need outfitting.(F) connecting the EUS LH2 & LO2 tanks would cause thermal regulation problems to think this out further, perhaps the LO2 tank might have its own hatch and a future attach point for a docking port?(weight?) (G) what protocols would be needed for an EVA  to remove the Engines?

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